Secret Lives Beyond Taboo - Mistress on the Mic with Mistress March feat. Erika Lemke - MOTM S1E3

S1E3 - MotM - ERICA P1

[: 00:00:00

Mistress March: Hello. Thank you for listening to Mistress on the Mic, your spot for Taboo conversations around kink BDSM, sexual liberation and more. I'm your host Mistress March.

Today I am meeting someone for the first time that I've admired for a while now. Her name is Erica Lemke, and you might recognize her as the sex and relationship coach that was featured on the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.

Honestly, she's brilliant, and the clip on the show hardly did her justice. They brought her into the show because one of the Mormon wives opened up after a divorce and revealed that she had never had an orgasm.

Now, I don't know if you've ever heard of the orgasm gap. It's the disparity in the frequency of orgasm between heterosexual cis men and women during sexual encounters.

Statistically, straight women report a much lower frequency of achieving orgasm. In fact, according to a study called the Kinsey Report. 10% of all women in the study said they had never orgasmed at any period in their lives. So I hope you get as much pleasure from listening to this episode as Erica and I did from making it.

Let's jump in.

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Mistress March: Erica, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Erica Lemke: First of all, just thank you so much for this opportunity. It's such a joy to be here with you today, or tonight, I should say, this lovely fall, evening.

My name is Erica Lemke. I am a certified sex and relationship coach, board certified sexologist and author, living and working, and practicing in Utah.

Mistress March: Now like I said, we're gonna be talking about secrets. Maybe they shouldn't be so secret, but

[: 00:01:44

Mistress March: people might've seen you before.

You had, you had a little appearance recently?

Erica Lemke: I did have a little appearance and it was a little appearance on the most recent, season of the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. I was on the book of Taboo, I think it was, episode four. So I got to present they called it a sex party, but we know this was not a "sex party" per se, but a party about talking about sex and breaking the taboo and the stigma around sex.

Mistress March: Can you tell me a little bit, what was that like? We only saw just a tiny piece of it that actually made it to the show. I'm sure there was a lot that we didn't get to see.

Is there anything that was really poignant or important that you wish people knew about?

Erica Lemke: Yeah. Well I was there for nearly four hours. Wow. So that was a long time to be on my beautiful high heel shoes for four hours and just rocking it. I think what was missed was that we had a long conversation around consent and, you know, expressing our needs, um, what we need for pleasure.

And that sadly was taken out the girls were so engaging and they, they really were very talkative especially when it came to like issues around pleasure and like expressing their sexuality. That was not. Part of the show, which I would've loved to have seen

but, I was just happy for the experience. And, there were a couple who were a little bit more middle school girls, you know, but for the most part they were very open, engaging, and, and really interested in the discussion we were having.

Mistress March: So what does that look like? A secret Mormon wife who is feeling more of a middle school girl attitude versus someone who maybe is in a different place. Can you, can you talk about even just as an archetype, what's the difference? Yeah.

Erica Lemke: Well I think a lot of it was you could see the, oh, the embarrassment.

Mm. And the shame piece. I think part of that too, it was not like they were like opening themselves up like. "This is my confidence." Like "I'm confident in my sexuality. I'm confident about expressing it." I found that several of them were, but there was still that piece of like, "this is. Taboo, right?" This should not be out in the open and even maybe within the confines of the bedroom, but I think for some of them, even for their own sense of self, of knowing what that is for them.

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Mistress March: Do you think that purity culture keeps us trapped in adolescence in some ways?

Erica Lemke: I think purity is attached to our worth. And vice versa, right? So if you're pure, then we're worthy and we're deserving. And I think that's what I really get from this part of that culture specifically, that if you've had sex before marriage, if you've had any type of sex or even what you think might be sex, right, or even thoughts about sex, then it's impure, and then so by extensions, you are impure or I'm impure. Yeah. And that's really, really hard, especially if they're getting those messages at such an early age.

Mistress March: Well, it sounds like the truth is nobody's pure.

That would be terrible anyway. Right.

Erica Lemke: Well, and I come from a space in my own practice is like pleasure is our birth right?

Hmm.

We all deserve pleasure and you know, we have access to our bodies. From birth essentially. Right? I mean, we're sexual beings at birth and I know a lot of people are like, ah, no, my kid. Like I get that. But essentially we are we have access to our bodies 24/7, right?

Mistress March: Absolutely. Of course the way that we express that pleasure or that curiosity or both changes as we grow and as we mature. But I've actually seen some things recently. There have been some studies that show that in the womb, fetuses can show masturbation behavior.

Have you seen this?

Erica Lemke: Yeah. 'cause guess what? 'cause it feels good.

Mistress March: Yeah.

Erica Lemke: I mean, plain and simple, right? And we're creatures who are seeking pleasure.

Mistress March: Absolutely. Right. Absolutely. So we mentioned adolescence and then we've talked about in the womb, and we've talked about how pleasure is a lifelong pursuit and a drive that we have.

And we touched just briefly on consent.

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Mistress March: let's talk about consent. Yeah. That's something that you do have to be an adult to consent to having sexual experiences, whether that's seeing something, doing something, experiencing it with someone else. So what are some of the fundamentals when the conversation does open up versus staying, you know, hidden and repressed?

Yeah. Where do you like to start when you talk with people about consent?

Erica Lemke: Well, I would start with asking them if they know what consent is. Mm-hmm. Even if you're in, a marriage. You still need consent. I think for a lot of people think that because we're married, that I've already given consent, right?

Yeah. Kind of a blanket consent, so whatever happens, I have to be okay with it, or I have to be, receptive, available. Yeah,

Mistress March: so marriage is really interesting when you look at BDSM and how stigmatized and taboo it is.

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Mistress March: Marriage is super normalized, especially certain ways that are seen as traditional and what's acceptable. But marriage is really an ownership contract. Mm-hmm. We have that in BDSM too. It's just negotiated in a different way instead of built off of assumptions. Do you think that ownership comes into play when people don't know that they still get to choose whether or not to consent to sexual things within a marriage.

Erica Lemke: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I mean, even just you saying ownership just like gave me chills.

Mistress March: Hmm. What does that bring up for you?

Erica Lemke: Well, I mean, thankfully I've never been in a relationship where I felt I was owned by someone. But I could see where. Like, I guess that might be a trigger for me. Like, I want my own freedom. I wanna make my own decisions and whether I'm in a relationship or not, that is my right to do so.

Mistress March: Have you ever thought about some of the customs around marriage that we have that are just so accepted without a blink?

Yeah, people wear a ring on their finger. It's just like a collar.

Erica Lemke: Yeah.

Mistress March: It's a symbol of ownership.

And the bride is given away by her father to her husband within that construct,and it's about property and it's about rights, but we live in a time now where we get to redefine these things ourselves.

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Mistress March: So in your practice and the work that you do, you get to see these secret parts of people's lives. What are some of the creative ways that you've seen people redefine these things?

Erica Lemke: When they come to me, you know, for most people there's some d egree of either shame or frustration or fear, quite frankly, when it comes to sex and pleasure and just being able to give someone permission, like we talked about, permission. I think oftentimes people need to hear it from somebody else.

It's okay, whatever your fantasies are. Probably one of the bigger things that I get is like, " I'm aroused by something that. I feel is not normal" but the fact is, I will tell them if it's not illegal and if it's consensual in that context, then anything goes.

And if it's in your mind, you can do whatever the hell you wanna do. And I think that exploration of knowing that if something is stirring you, see where that leads. Yeah. But I think what happens is people feel so much shame around their own desires that then they have that conflict that continuous battle between themselves, of what's, okay, what's again "normal". But what really turns me on and what gets me off is something that if we could just synergize that. And accept that within ourselves. My God. Can you imagine how much better this world would be?

Mistress March: Absolutely. There can be so much creativity. Mm-hmm.

Right? We can approach this with curiosity and creativity and the possibilities are endless. And just as you said there are things that are harmful. It's not okay to involve children. It's not okay to involve people in the public who didn't consent to see things or to be a part of what you're doing, but.

You actually get to do what you want with your body, with your pleasure, with your partners that you're working together with to create amazing experiences.

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Mistress March: So there are a lot of kinks and fetishes that revolve around being forced to do things. What does that do for them?

Erica Lemke: Hmm. Uh, surrendering? Hmm? Letting go. I think we're in such a society where we aren't able to surrender, right?

Yeah. We're, we're go, go, go. Everything is so busy and it's so stressful. And I think for so many it's like they just wanna let someone else take the wheel for a while.

Mistress March: Yeah. Do you ever think it has to do with feeling like you have permission because it wasn't your idea?

Erica Lemke: Hmm. Yeah. I like that. I think so.

Absolutely.

Mistress March: I think so too. Yeah. I think it can be a really powerful tool for letting go of the shame.

Erica Lemke: Hmm.

Mistress March: Because you get a little free pass because someone else is doing this to you, and I think that's one of the reasons why that's so powerful.

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Mistress March: So let's speak a bit about the shame, the secret. Why does this part of our lives feel like we have to keep it a secret?

Erica Lemke: Mm. So I did not grow up LDS I actually didn't grow up with a lot of religious information as a kid, quite frankly.

But if you're three years old and you're in the bathtub and you're masturbating, you're caught. And your caregiver says, that's bad. You're dirty, you know, whatever. Whatever that negative connotation is. I think that that then carries this like the script that you have for decades, maybe for the entirety of your life, right? So being able to like to own that part of you and say that this is okay.

But I think it can take a long time for people to rewrite their narrative. Especially if that's what they've lived with for, however long that they've lived to this point. It's informed them to where they've got here, but I don't think it has to define them. Yeah. Unless they allow it.

Mistress March: I saw another interview that you did where you said shame is there to protect us. Hmm. What does shame protect us from? Why is shame there to protect us?

Erica Lemke: I think maybe sometimes it's a matter of maybe we're not ready, we're just not ready yet to go down a certain road or a certain path. So it's kind of giving us that sense of like, okay, I wanna kind of hold and protect the space right now until, until I'm ready.

And for some people maybe they're never ready. But I think it does come from a cellular level, especially if that's happened so early in life that it's embedded, ingrained in us.

Mistress March: Let's think of an example. What's something that you might be ashamed of?

Erica Lemke: Hmm. I'm gonna say masturbation. Okay. Because I think so many people, especially in a lot of different cultures that's considered dirty bad. And I think it goes back to that piece if we are told that our pleasure is not okay. Then think about all the times that we wanna do something and we're conflicted with it.

And so we're having to think about it, but then we still wanna do it and we do it anyway, and then we feel bad about it. And then it's just a vicious cycle that just keeps getting ingrained into a rut. Right?

Mistress March: Why would a parent shame you for masturbating? What are they trying to protect you from?

Erica Lemke: Well, I think by extension they're trying to protect us from having sex.

Mistress March: Hmm.

Erica Lemke: And, you know, we are all sexual beings. My kids are now almost 21 and 23 when they were three and five years old. Yeah, I was talking to them from a developmental perspective, like what was, what is appropriate for that, you know, for that age range.

Right. But even to talk about sex, I think parents are like, if we talk about it, they're gonna do it.

Mistress March: Yeah.

Erica Lemke: So I think there's just, I think there's just a lot of fear that's around that.

Mistress March: Yeah. Maybe protecting you from the risks that come along with that part of life. Exactly. What about the social risks? I think there's a big piece there where.

The reason shame exists around a lot of sexual behaviors is to protect you from other people's reactions.

Erica Lemke: Judgment, right?

Mistress March: Yeah. It's to protect you from judgment. Mm-hmm. It's to protect you from offending people. Yeah. From not understanding and having the discernment when you're young, especially to read the room.

Yeah. And know the time and place where that's appropriate and where it's not. And understand mean it's conforming to society. Right.

Erica Lemke: Yeah. I think especially like when we're in those developmental stages, like we wanna con, we wanna be a part of the crowd. Right. We wanna belong. I think it is. I think it's part of it. About belonging.

Mistress March: Yeah, there's a lot about belonging. And that can even go back to ownership because we want to belong to the togetherness, to the "US" of human society, but also we want the security of belonging to someone that we care about.

Erica Lemke: Yeah.

Mistress March: Because if you belong to someone, they can't leave you.

When you're owned by someone, you're their responsibility. I think there's a fear of abandonment that this touches on too.

Erica Lemke: Oh, absolutely, a fear of abandonment, a fear of not being loved, not being respected. Not being seen, you know, I think it's very heady, isn't it, when it comes to that.

And I think that's what makes, makes sex and relationships so intriguing, quite frankly.

Mistress March: Absolutely.

[: 00:15:54

Mistress March: So in Utah. Working in the ways that we each do. Have you ever come across the law of chastity?

Erica Lemke: Not so much. So you're gonna have to tell me about that.

Mistress March: Um, do you know anything about it? Have you ever heard of the law of Chastity in a Mormon LDS context?

No. Oh gosh.

Erica Lemke: At least they haven't said, or it's not something that my clients have shared with me.

Mistress March: Okay. So the "law of chastity", um, doctrinally is about purity. It's just purity culture in a nutshell, and it's a lot of specifics put into this law of how you can be worthy, mostly based on not doing certain things, not having sex, not masturbating, not participating in "Necking" as it's called, and passionate kissing and petting and touching each other's bodies and exploring things.

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Mistress March: Um, have you ever heard of chastity within a kink construct? Has that ever come up?

Erica Lemke: That I have heard of. More specifically than in a religious context, Yes.

Mistress March: So tell me, I'm curious, what do you know about it?

It's such a part of my life that I always wonder what other people think about that.

Erica Lemke: I just wanna hear about, I just wanna hear about your experience.

Mistress March: We can do both.

Erica Lemke: Well, isn't it going back to like you're giving permission, right? You're giving permission to yourself and to your partner or partners to be able to, would you say restrain or how would you phrase it?

Yeah. Um,

Mistress March: to have control. So, so tell me what you know, and then we'll fill in some gaps. Okay. Or, and your perception and it may not be perfect. That's totally okay.

Erica Lemke: But, and I may be totally off the mark too.

Mistress March: No, it sounds like you're on the right track. So, when you picture chastity within a kinky context, what do you picture, what comes to mind?

Erica Lemke: So I am thinking of like a cock and ball cage, for example, something like that.

Mistress March: Yeah. That's really, really common. That can definitely be a big part of it, and chastity does exist for people who don't have a penis as well, that is obviously a separate type of device.

There's actually all different kinds of devices.

So a cage is the most common and it's called a "ball trap device". Then, there's a more secure device that actually works together with a Prince Albert piercing. So that's a bigger commitment of course, for people who have experimented with that type of play, and they really get something out of it. And then of course, if you think about a chastity belt, like the medieval, crazy device, and it goes all the way around. Well, those, actually exist too. That's something that I've played with quite a bit, and it's very fun.

So when it's come up in the work that you've done and the people that you work with, what has been their reasoning or what's in it for them? It seems like a thing that's so far out of the norm. Why would you wanna do that?

Erica Lemke: Yeah. Well, I think it is about giving yourself the freedom and permission to do or not do what you want. Yeah. Within a safe, supportive space. And I think so many people just don't think that they have the ability to do that.

Mm.

So I think when they come into that type of arrangement, they're allowed, it's almost, I would say, it's freedom.

Mistress March: Yeah. Isn't that so ironic? Right.

Erica Lemke: Yeah, absolutely. Because you're getting to choose. You know, and I think choice is enormous.

Mistress March: Absolutely. Well in the example where there is a man who's in Chastity and the person who controls that device and controls their pleasure, if that's their partner and their "key holder" it's called, then they know that key holder is on board with their pleasure.

They have the restraint, the restriction, but then when it does happen, when they are brought in to the game instead of left on the bench, they know that the person, their key holder, their partner, maybe it's their wife, their girlfriend, or whatever, that they want it to happen, that they want that to come into play.

And

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Mistress March: I think men don't get to feel desired very often.

Um, what do you see happening? You have such a glimpse into people's private secret lives.

Erica Lemke: Yeah. Well, I talk a lot about sensuality with women and also with my male clients, I think most of my male clients think that. "that's for women" sensuality, and being able to be receptive. I think they think of it more as like, "I'm the giver. So I have to give, and it's about performance."

Mistress March: That, that's gotta be a lot of pressure. Right. Performance.

Erica Lemke: So, yeah, I see that so much.

It's so much of my clients. So someone, especially for a male who's willing to let go, to be vulnerable enough to receive and to really, really understand what their pleasure is. Because I think a lot especially with males, pleasure equals orgasm.

Mistress March: Yeah.

Erica Lemke: They don't see anything else other than that, and so I'm teaching them that pleasure happens way before that.

The joys of foreplay. and also the joys of like the sensuality of life. Right?

So what are the senses that make you feel excited or make you feel relaxed and grounded?

I think we need to be in that rest and digest state, that parasympathetic nervous system in order for us to receive, for us to feel safe enough to feel connected.

If we're in the head and we are thinking about armoring up that "fight or flight", then we're not gonna be able to connect to our bodies.

So many of us, I think, are disconnected from our kinesthetic selves.

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Mistress March: What are some ways that you encourage people to connect with their bodies so they can experience that pleasure?

Erica Lemke: you know, Both non-sexual pleasure and sexual pleasure are equally important, especially if people are having a hard time with the sexual part.

So we'll roll it back to make it a little bit safer for them, at least initially. I might give them an exercise of like, I want you to brainstorm everything that smells, tastes, everything that just elicits a pleasurable response in you. So cultivate that list, find it every day: find little bits of pleasure every day that you can then access that connection to your body to the present moment. And then as you build on that. Then when you get in a relationship with someone else, or even with yourself in more sexual context, you have so much more information available about your body and you think about it, our skin is the biggest organ in our bodies, but oftentimes when we're in that context, we're just going for the genitals.

So explore everything that's possible. 'cause there's so much.

Mistress March: Do you have a sensory routine? What? What do you like? What puts you in your body?

Erica Lemke: Hmm. Well, lavender is probably the scent that just gets me I just melt as soon as I smell that. Oh my gosh.

It's the scent, it's the fabrics in my bedroom I've created this wonderful sanctuary that when I'm in that space, everything is available and yummy and delicious and let's go for it.

Mistress March: What about your other senses?

Erica Lemke: I love good bossanova music, so I'll put some bossanova on. and then As far as visuals, I like soft lighting, but I love to see like my, just my lovers' skin and then all the contours.

But also like in broad daylight too. I'm actually not that particular when it comes to that because I just love when you see someone looking at you in a way that's just like, "I want you." To me, I think that is like one of the biggest turn ons ever.

Mistress March: Yeah. Eye contact too, connection.

Erica Lemke: Absolutely. Well, and then going back to like the shame piece or you know, the embarrassment.

How many people have sex with their lights off? Because they don't want to be seen or they wanna see, but they don't wanna be seen. Yeah. You know, my, my boobs are saggy.

"My tummy's too big". Yeah. "I won't take off my top. I'm gonna Winnie the Poo it all the way through."

And, you know, I think the most sexy thing that someone can be is confident in their own skin.

Absolutely. Absolutely. You know? A hundred percent. A hundred percent.

Because you know what? They don't give a, they don't give a crap about that, like when someone is with you, they want you. And the more that we can harness that and just really, really, say "I'm owning this. I'm owning every piece of myself." That to me is the sexiest thing ever.

Mistress March: When you are self-conscious, it prevents you from connecting with another person because your attention is focused on yourself and it's focused on yourself in a negative way.

You're criticizing yourself, you're breaking yourself down. You're not capable of being conscious of the other person, much less what's transpiring between the two of you fully when your attention is so focused there. on yourself

Erica Lemke: Yeah. And I would also say to go further, that sometimes they will take themselves outta the picture.

Mistress March: Mm. What do you mean by that?

Erica Lemke: Well, it's almost like they're, they disassociate their body's there, they're not there, they're not present. That's why I love the work when I do, is like really getting my clients to understand how can you be here in the present moment and like every nuance, every touch, every smell, every lick, every bite.

You know, all of those things. And just pay attention. Get the most out of it and slow down. Yeah.

Mistress March: So before we close this piece. I think you have an exercise. This is perfect. Ooh, as you're listening, you can write down these steps and maybe have a jumping off point to use this to get into your body and to prepare for any type of experience.

Erica Lemke: I love it.

[: 00:25:28

Erica Lemke: Okay,

so I'm gonna tell you all wherever you are right now. Whether you're driving, you're walking, you're sitting in your bed, all cozy. I want you just to take this moment to arrive into your body. You don't have to close your eyes or change anything. Simply notice yourself here, breathing alive and present.

So let's start with the breath. Inhale gently through your nose. And let it fall out also through your nose and just let it all out. Feel the weight of your body, how the ground, your chair, whatever surface you're on, is holding you. And there's no rush. Just let yourself feel supported. So we're gonna begin with safety here.

Okay? Safety isn't just an idea. It's something that your body can truly feel. So let you let your shoulders drop unc unclench your jaw, even let your belly soften and just feel into that relaxation. You know, you might even whisper to yourself, it's okay to slow down. I'm safe in my body. And I think that's where sensuality really truly begins, when the body feels safe enough to feel open.

And now we're gonna move into presence. So presence lives in the senses. What do you notice around you? Maybe the sound of your own breath, the rhythm of your heartbeat, the air against your skin. Let your awareness rest on one small detail, a texture, a sound, or your breath. And allow it you to anchor in right here and out.

And if your mind wanders, it's okay. Just come back home to your body as best you can. And now we're gonna make this open to connection. And if it feels comfortable, place one hand on your heart and the other on your belly. Breathe into that space between your hands, your heart, your center. Feel your own warmth, your own pulse.

And with every inhale, draw energy inward connecting to yourself. With every exhale, let it extend outward connecting to the world around you, to others, to life itself. You are both held and connected. Safe, present, and alive. This is what it means to inhabit your sensual self. So I want you to take one last deep breath in, and this time I want you to sigh out.

Inhale safety, exhale presence, inhale connection. Exhale, gratitude.

And as you come back, just notice how you feel, perhaps a little softer. A little more grounded, maybe more aware of your body in this present moment. And these simple moments of reconnection are a big part of what I teach in my work. And when we learn to return to the body, to safety, presence, and connection, we unlock our natural sensuality, our vitality, and our joy.

Thank you for listening.

[: 00:29:15

Mistress March: That was beautiful. Thank you for speaking. Thank you for sharing. My pleasure. Mm, my pleasure as well. So let's take a moment to just sit in that. It's beautiful ...and we can rewind, we can listen over and over, and there's no amount of times to do something like that, that would be too many.

And there are so many scenarios where that could be useful.

Where can people find more of your work?

Erica Lemke: Well, my website is sexcoachSLC.com i'm on Instagram at @iAmEricaLemke, and on LinkedIn at Sex Coach SLC. Wonderful. Can you just spell Erica Lemke for everyone who's visual? Thank you so much. E-R-I-C-A-L-E-M-K-E.

Mistress March: Okay. Wonderful that was just a first taste.

[: 00:30:11

Mistress March: But I hope you'll join us next time for part two where you can hear more about delicious, scandalous, taboo things and really about PLEASURE from me, Mistress March, and my wonderful guest today, Erica Lemke. So make sure you come back for that second episode where we go deeper in.

In part two, we'll be digging in to centering women's pleasure, feeling unworthy or impure, the unhealthy expectations and pressure that can come from porn, dealing with the fear of abandonment, performance anxiety, and more.

We're looking forward to sharing it with you.

Indeed, we are. Till next time, darling. Stay freaky.

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